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Automakers, Refiners Lose Challenge to E15

NACS Online -- The U.S. Appeals Court for the District of Columbia Circuit has dismissed the challenges brought forth by trade associations representing automakers, refiners and other industries on the Environmental Protection Agency’s E15 waiver, saying that the groups did not have a legal right to challenge the EPA decision.

In 2010, EPA issued a partial waiver that allows for the use of E15 in vehicles manufacture during or after model year 2007. In 2011, EPA expanded authorized use of E15 to include model year 2001 and later vehicles.

The American Fuel & Petrochemical Manufacturers (AFPM), one of the groups that challenged the EPA’s E15 waiver, maintains that the court’s decision puts consumers at risk.

“AFPM members want to ensure that all fuels sold into commerce are safe for consumers, effectiv

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Submitted Aug 20, 2012 By: EZExit

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rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,419 Points:2,226,900 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 12:31:56 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse PhoenixNightOwl - "Where I live, (S. Nebraska), unless the car or truck doesn't "like" E10, everyone uses it, because it's 10-cents a gallon cheaper, & hybrids out here are pretty much useless, since everything is so spread out." Two things: cheaper to buy doesn't necessarily mean cheaper to operate. You need to check what your mileage is with each, then figure which one is actually cheaper. And hybrids run on gas, just like your V8, so range isn't a problem.
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,338 Points:693,295 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 10:35:29 AM Ignore Houckster Report Abuse PHOENIXNIGHTOWL writes: NASCAR has been using 100% for a long time now, biggest problem is for Fire crews cause it's invisible when burning in sunlight; _____ Not relevant. NASCAR builds their engines for each race and they can build the engines to run on ethanol. Our engines were built to accommodate E10 and not more. We especially don't need E15 at a time when crops are failing due to drought. [Edited by: Houckster at 8/22/2012 1:41:05 PM EST]
sparky808 Champion Author Honolulu Posts:2,986 Points:595,785 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 10:29:42 AM Ignore sparky808 Report Abuse Thank you for posting.
PhoenixNightOwl Rookie Author Nebraska Posts:4 Points:14,165 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Aug 22, 2012 10:14:19 AM Ignore PhoenixNightOwl Report Abuse IF an engine is set up for E10, E15, E85, or straight Ethanol, there's nothing wrong with the stuff at all. NASCAR has been using 100% for a long time now, biggest problem is for Fire crews cause it's invisible when burning in sunlight; The fire crews have been taught to watch the driver & car: If there's bubbling paint, hose it with water & it's out; If the driver is patting their leg or somewhere else, hose the area with water & they're out. No prob. IF an engine is NOT set up for it, you'll have problems. If your fuel tank is plastic, the car/truck has been set up for it; IF the tank is steel, don't use it unless you're going to go thru almost all of it pretty fast, or you'll end up having to drain the water out of the bottom of the tank, & since tanks haven't had bottom-drains for a very long time now, then use whatever your car or truck is set up for. I have a big RV (Class-A, the ones that look like a bus), and unfortunately, it runs gas, not diesel. It has a steel tank, but there's a drain plug in the bottom, & instructions in the Owners Manual telling you exactly what kinds of mixes you should & shouldn't use. I put gas in it with stabilizer when I'm not sure I'm going to run it nearly empty & then fill it up again. If I'm taking it someplace, I use E10 or whatever is cheapest, since I'm going to run it almost dry, & the thing drinks fuel like a kid drinks soda-pop. The engine is an '88-'89 HD Ford 460 in a John Deere chassis, & it really doesn't care what I put in it, as long as the stuff burns. It's rated as a "Heavy Duty Truck" chassis, no cat converter, no nothing except evaporative cannisters, & I've got two of them; Anything over 61 gallons is too much for just one, & my tank holds 90 gal. It doesn't ping or knock on anything I can find to run it on, E-whatever or not. It doesn't like E-85 because it has to be re-tuned for it, and I can't reach the adjustments, they crammed that big V8 in there with a shoehorn. The biggest problem with Ethanol is making it from corn; Corn is for food, use what's left over for making ethanol, since any vegetable matter will make decent ethanol, but don't waste good food by using it to make fuel, it's just common sense. If I can ever find a Cummins engine & Allison DT-465 trans for it, I'll switch it out; or if I can find an older Freightliner or Kenworth, etc., those powertrains will fit too, & I don't mind shifting a gear or three to get better mileage. I'm not a big fan of "diesel pushers", just because if my co-driver wants to take a nap, & there's a safety net on the bed, they're laying on top of a noisy, hot engine, that's why I want it up front, since the driver is awake anyway. One old trucker's trick was to mix a gallon of gasoline with each 60-gallons of #2 diesel to clean the injectors; An old VW-owner's trick was to pour a quart of #2 diesel down the carb while making sure they didn't kill the engine with it, to clean the valves. (Either way, we made sure there was at least 40k miles on the engine before doing either one, since there's no need if it's got less mileage than 40k on it.) Where I live, (S. Nebraska), unless the car or truck doesn't "like" E10, everyone uses it, because it's 10-cents a gallon cheaper, & hybrids out here are pretty much useless, since everything is so spread out. And, for what it's worth: If you need Diesel, get it at a truck stop, where it's cheaper; Gas is cheaper in town, diesel is cheaper at a truck stop. Drive Gently!
sparky808 Champion Author Honolulu Posts:2,986 Points:595,785 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 10:28:26 AM Ignore sparky808 Report Abuse A sad day. End the ethanol mandate.
rocky23hy Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:2,618 Points:1,862,595 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Aug 21, 2012 4:03:52 AM Ignore rocky23hy Report Abuse "Political science and the advancement of one industry should never be placed ahead of real science and consumer welfare.” AFPM says
crreed1 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:1,970 Points:2,523,410 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:17:03 PM Ignore crreed1 Report Abuse BS
Dragnet Champion Author Arizona Posts:15,394 Points:2,906,040 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:12:55 PM Ignore Dragnet Report Abuse What can you expect from Liberals that are tree huggers. They are all a bunch of looney tunes that don't have a clue about hardly anything as they just stay tuned-out
CheeseMan Champion Author Raleigh Posts:10,740 Points:1,775,000 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:10:46 PM Ignore CheeseMan Report Abuse It's the EPA once again!!! These EPA people making all these rules and regulations that we have to live by are not even elected. How did they get so much power???? They are beginning to control just about all aspects of our lives. We worry about the government having so much power over us.... How 'bout the EPA??? They really need to be brought under control.
goodbuy Champion Author Michigan Posts:7,653 Points:1,419,555 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:09:01 PM Ignore goodbuy Report Abuse If your congressperson or senator voted for it, FIRE THEM!!!
bigdipperMS Champion Author Mississippi Posts:1,502 Points:534,725 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:08:18 PM Ignore bigdipperMS Report Abuse EPA has to go along with our present administration.
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,456 Points:660,210 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:07:25 PM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse Defund the EPA!
shores4now Champion Author Kentucky Posts:2,391 Points:520,875 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:06:50 PM Ignore shores4now Report Abuse Ok
kgbellman Champion Author Ann Arbor Posts:2,698 Points:728,915 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:05:18 PM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse Down with E15 and up with alt fuels
wcp3rd All-Star Author New Jersey Posts:719 Points:358,700 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:03:53 PM Ignore wcp3rd Report Abuse ok
PrinceLH Champion Author Ontario Posts:2,682 Points:536,095 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:02:26 PM Ignore PrinceLH Report Abuse Just be rid of it!
SavALot Champion Author Virginia Beach Posts:8,459 Points:1,708,910 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 9:01:24 PM Ignore SavALot Report Abuse challenge that has come and gone by now...
wcp3rd All-Star Author New Jersey Posts:719 Points:358,700 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:57:43 PM Ignore wcp3rd Report Abuse ok
KY_Homeboy Veteran Author Kentucky Posts:301 Points:361,215 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:57:04 PM Ignore KY_Homeboy Report Abuse Huh??
Mikeyl Champion Author Cleveland Posts:5,147 Points:1,183,195 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:56:33 PM Ignore Mikeyl Report Abuse Never heard of E15. Is it related to E85 gas?
petrpuck All-Star Author Hamilton Posts:559 Points:416,210 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:53:46 PM Ignore petrpuck Report Abuse say what ?
itsjustme719 All-Star Author Hamilton Posts:611 Points:597,400 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:48:40 PM Ignore itsjustme719 Report Abuse Okay.
MJIOWA Champion Author Iowa Posts:4,808 Points:1,075,020 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:46:29 PM Ignore MJIOWA Report Abuse corn for food switch grass for fuel
kgbellman Champion Author Ann Arbor Posts:2,698 Points:728,915 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:45:09 PM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse Down with E15 and up with alt fuels
Tekkersmom57 Champion Author Syracuse Posts:1,864 Points:698,715 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:45:02 PM Ignore Tekkersmom57 Report Abuse Go ahead, put E10 and E15 side by side and SEE which one is chosen. Put 100% gas out there with no ethanol at all and I think the EPA might be surprised with what the consumer picks! I dare you to give us all three choices.
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:10,886 Points:2,129,655 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:43:28 PM Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse Bad pure gasoline does far more damage than E15. Just think back to the 50's, 60's, and 70's where almost all gas was sold ethanol free. People paid a lot to add alcohol (at $4-10/gal for alcohol when gasoline prices were well under $1/gal retail) to their tank to get rid of condensation problems during the winter and in high humidity areas. A little water in the gas destroys engines due to hydro-lock. Stale "pure" gas is just as destructive as gum and varnish causes carburetors too run far too lean which leads to detonation and eventual engine destruction. They can also cause the float to stick open which causes hydro-lock with liquid gasoline as the agent. E15 can run a whole lot leaner without detonation than "pure" gasoline. It also cleans out gum and varnish from jets both in carburetors and fuel injectors.
sammy518 Champion Author Austin Posts:2,589 Points:539,790 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:41:21 PM Ignore sammy518 Report Abuse no E15, no FRACKING!
Ahking Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,497 Points:601,520 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:39:44 PM Ignore Ahking Report Abuse remove the subsidiary on ethanol.
carloco75 Champion Author Richmond Posts:3,706 Points:597,540 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:39:33 PM Ignore carloco75 Report Abuse Find real gasoline...do search and broadcast your findings!
gerreg All-Star Author Nebraska Posts:774 Points:1,644,430 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:39:30 PM Ignore gerreg Report Abuse OK
honkerman Champion Author San Jose Posts:44,179 Points:2,394,170 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:36:13 PM Ignore honkerman Report Abuse Does anyone have the right to challenge the mighty EPA? Not likely. So...BAN ETHANOL AND BAN THE EPA.
OOXXFF Champion Author Greensboro Posts:3,048 Points:1,076,480 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:35:43 PM Ignore OOXXFF Report Abuse So E15 is still with us.
5kvdave All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:688 Points:350,000 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:35:09 PM Ignore 5kvdave Report Abuse WHATEVER!!!!!
toadNY Champion Author Albany Posts:7,032 Points:1,511,200 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:33:58 PM Ignore toadNY Report Abuse Buddy2264 I have a flex fuel truck an when I use E85 my milage drops by 4 miles to a gallon. Gas has to be over .67 cents more to save on gas.
NemoIL Champion Author Illinois Posts:3,010 Points:1,310,195 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:33:48 PM Ignore NemoIL Report Abuse Ethanon is bad fuel.
Buddy2264 Champion Author Tampa Posts:11,639 Points:2,357,045 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:29:57 PM Ignore Buddy2264 Report Abuse But will we still have E10 for older vehicles, as I drive a 1997. Guess it is time to upgrade. I want at least a flex fuel vehicle and would like it to be also hybrid.
mrbee Champion Author Little Rock Posts:3,743 Points:2,463,660 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:29:41 PM Ignore mrbee Report Abuse No ethanol, no EPA
listerone Champion Author Boston Posts:3,370 Points:876,065 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:29:11 PM Ignore listerone Report Abuse OK
bojiway1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:2,034 Points:476,010 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:27:53 PM Ignore bojiway1 Report Abuse hmmmmm
toadNY Champion Author Albany Posts:7,032 Points:1,511,200 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:25:54 PM Ignore toadNY Report Abuse WOW the epa saying that the groups did not have a legal right to challenge the epa decision! Sounds like they where appointed by obama! An do as he saids!
gasgo123 Veteran Author South Carolina Posts:275 Points:1,767,985 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:23:38 PM Ignore gasgo123 Report Abuse Another Obumers not caring about the citizens of the USA. He does not care about costs to the consumer for damage to damage caused by E15.
Yankee829 Champion Author Dallas Posts:2,191 Points:556,665 Joined:Sep 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:21:43 PM Ignore Yankee829 Report Abuse Ok
BoerneWatch Champion Author San Antonio Posts:15,531 Points:2,451,840 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:21:15 PM Ignore BoerneWatch Report Abuse I really wonder if the EPA guys actually own a small engined thing like a weed eater or lawn mower. The E10 destroys those, let's see how much worse the E15 will be.
abcdMA Champion Author Worcester Posts:7,912 Points:1,573,030 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:21:07 PM Ignore abcdMA Report Abuse no E85
FunMyster All-Star Author Indiana Posts:907 Points:73,215 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:20:00 PM Ignore FunMyster Report Abuse ok
mcmonsta Champion Author Honolulu Posts:3,212 Points:815,520 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:19:57 PM Ignore mcmonsta Report Abuse yes we trust the EEPA too much, still run by poiticians...need we say more
bonzoonfmb Champion Author Florida Posts:1,767 Points:641,660 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:19:44 PM Ignore bonzoonfmb Report Abuse No more ethanol in my fuel formula - I don't care anymore what it takes to get it out.
Jmac2008 Champion Author Missouri Posts:2,256 Points:878,005 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:19:36 PM Ignore Jmac2008 Report Abuse they need to stop producing ethanol
mstearno Champion Author Dayton Posts:8,054 Points:1,729,285 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:17:35 PM Ignore mstearno Report Abuse no food for fuel
fireless1 Champion Author Atlanta Posts:2,152 Points:535,840 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2012 8:17:34 PM Ignore fireless1 Report Abuse Ok